Relaunced Linda McCartney Food Range - Your Opinions
One of the most visited post and most commented on was this one from May last year.
It was a PR Press release about the company Hain Celestial buying out and re-launching the Linda McCartney branded vegetarian food range in the UK.
The new relaunched range didn’t go down well though (no pun intended). So far there’s been 61 comments about the range, most of them are a thumbs down of the new recipes.
» A reminder of the press release:
The Hain Celestial Group, Inc., a leading natural and organic food and personal care products company, is pleased to announce the relaunch of the Linda McCartney(R) range of vegetarian food products in the United Kingdom.
Since the Company’s purchase of the iconic meat-free Linda McCartney brand a year ago, the brand has undergone a strategic review with new and improved products and contemporary packaging. Through convenience and healthy ingredients, the Linda McCartney brand of products provides meal solutions inspired by the recipes of Linda McCartney.
David Arrow, Managing Director, Hain Celestial UK Ltd., commented, “Hain Celestial is delighted with the new product range and its incredibly positive reaction from the UK consumer. The range has been developed in close consultation with the McCartney Family to ensure the brand remains true to Linda’s original vision and reflects the food values she believed in.â€
But as mentioned the reaction wasn’t positive.
In fact there were so many negative comments posted on that one article, I decided to create this dedicated page and make it a feature item on ScouseVeg.
Vegetarian food is important to us, good vegetarian food is very important and at the moment the new Hain Celestial range is letting us down.
I’ve also moved all the comments from the post over to here so that we can further discuss this issue and I can add any updates.

PLEASE NOTE ! We are NOT the producers of the Linda McCartney food range !
- I have received numerous emails from consumers complaining that they can’t find any of the new products or don’t like the taste. This is a website for Liverpool and Merseyside based vegetarians and vegans. We don’t manufacture the products !
» If you want to contact Hain Celestial directly please use their contact form via their parent USA website.
(Their UK website has a contact page but it’s blank !)
If you still have no joy trying to reach them, please do leave a comment below.
Sometime in the future we will attempt to get comment/response from them and then post it here.


The Hain Celestial Group, Inc., a leading natural and organic food and personal care products company, is pleased to announce the relaunch of the Linda McCartney(R) range of vegetarian food products in the United Kingdom.






73 Responses to “Relaunced Linda McCartney Food Range - Your Opinions”
I had been a fan of Linda Mccartney products since the UB days. Unfortunately, my local Tesco hasn’t had stocks of the products for almost 12 months. It’s been a similar story in my local Sainsbury’s. I blame the manufacturer for this. I did notice on my last vist to Sainsbury’s that some of the newly packaged products have started to reappear but some (eg the sausages) are in smaller packs and others (eg the country pies) have got significantly more expensive. After having been left in limbo when these products vanished from the shelves, and with the new products costing more, I will not be a willing customer in future.
posted: May 11, 2007
Hoping you will relaunch sausage rolls as a product as these were very popular - certainly with us and our children. We look forward to being buy items from your new range.
posted: May 20, 2007
help!! need to find an outlet eher i can buy all linda mccartney food as that is all i eat have tried all supermarkets tesco sanisburys and waitrose and a few products in each but am desperate for the chilli as love it!! please get back to me - i am in kent regards lesley
posted: Jun 7, 2007
I have just read the above comments and likewise am disappointed not to be able to buy the Linda McCartney range from my local supermarkets ie Tesco. The country pies were fantastic and all my family loved them and we are not even vegetarian! Please tell me where my nearest stockist to Colchester, Essex and I would willingly try the new range
posted: Jun 26, 2007
Have greatly enjoyed the new recipe vegeburgers. Really disappointed to find they no longer seem to be available. This was one of the very few vegetarian recipes which did not include garlic (which I always avoid).
posted: Jul 4, 2007
i live in Ireland and have lived on Linda Mccartney meals for the last 10 years. I can not get them anywere in the last 2 months. Does anyone know when they are coming back to Ireland as I am craving a lasagne!!
posted: Jul 10, 2007
Were can I get Linday McCartney sundried tomato sausages, they seem to have disappeared from the shelves at Sainsburys.
posted: Jul 12, 2007
My wife and I LOVED the old deep country pies, despite not being veggie, but the new ‘improved’ versions are a disappointment…. they are smaller, but this is actually a blessing as the filling is not good. It’s sparse and strongly flavoured with onion. I doubt we’ll buy them again, shame!
posted: Jul 15, 2007
I am very dissappointed with the new recipe for the Country Pies these were my favourate product from the Linda McCartney range and I do not like them since they have changed the recipe after the relaunch.
I just hope enough people complain about this and they change them back to the original recipe.
posted: Jul 19, 2007
why on earth no sun dried tomato sausages,all the others arenowhere near as good,must have been a good seller.
posted: Jul 23, 2007
Please tell me where I can get the Linda McCartney sauceages in Ireland? Have loved them for years, as do my children. A staple in our house! May have to resort to Sosmix soon!
posted: Jul 27, 2007
Agggghhhhhh! Something else that’s been ‘improved’ but not for the better! I don’t eat much convenience food, but used to allow these into my freezer as an occassional treat because the filling was so rich and tasty, albeit the fact that you could never bake them evenly, despite following the instructions to the letter (has anybody ever cooked a Deep Country Pie that hasn’t had a soggy, raw pastry bottom? No, didn’t think so…). Now, not only does the ‘improved’ recipe still not cook properly (I’m not kidding – check out the picture on the box; even the food stylist couldn’t manage to brown that base!), it now tastes foul – overpowering onion flavour and sweet, sickly soya. V. disappointing.
posted: Jul 30, 2007
i have not read a good report on the new country pies, bring back the original pies, they were delicious.
posted: Aug 2, 2007
My wife is really disappointed with the new pies, all she can taste is onion!? A great shame as she used to look forward to a LM pie… Oh well, won’t be buying another one until they change the recipe back.
posted: Aug 8, 2007
I am sooo glad that there are other people who share the same thoughts as me! Have been searching the net for where the Mccartney food range has gone and why it disappeared from most supermarkets. I have yet to see the new range anywhere and by the sounds of it I don’t want to! As a lot of you on here, I was a HUGE fan of the deep country pies and the lasagne. My nearest Morrisons (tesco is local- isn’t it everyone’s!?) still stock both the pies and lasagne so by the sounds of it I will be stocking up on my faves as new recipe doesn’t sound too gr8! Don’t understand that because the company has a new owner the recipes had to be changed? Surely they bought the company coz it has a good reputation? LEAVE THE PIES ALONE, PLEASE!
posted: Aug 12, 2007
Can anyone tell me the Linda McCartney website link so I can complain whioeheartedly about the disgusting new country pies?
Cheers
posted: Aug 13, 2007
ive just had a linda mccartney pie and was nearly sick it was revolting what has happened to them ive always bought them in a red box and when i bought them yesterday it was in new packing i thought the taste would be the same how wrong was i they are discusting nothing like the beautiful old pies i will never buy these again unless they change the recipe back they have gone from being my favourite food product to the worst
posted: Aug 15, 2007
Damn, the new deep country pies are terrible, we tried them and my girlfriend was really upset cos it was the only pie she could really have and loved it. I managed to eat them but didn’t enjoy them.
Fortunately we went into holland&barret yesterday and found the old deep country pies in the red boxes and bought them all!!
We will have them until we run out and never touch the new ones again.
posted: Aug 15, 2007
yuk yuk yuk, these new pies are revolting with an overpowering garlic and onion flavour. where is our original yummy fab tastiest pie gone bring them back please.we will not be buying these pies again as they are foul so please bring back the old recipe.from a household of many vegetarians.
posted: Aug 15, 2007
I am glad to see that I am not the only one disgusted with the country pies. I hadnt had them for years and decided to buy some last week and cooked them tonight. Well the pies are simply full of gravy and barely a teaspoonful of soya mince. I feel this is a con and I have sent an email of complaint to the company that now own the McCartney range. If anyone else would like to visit the website and do the same, this is the link:-
http://www.hain-celestial.co.uk/Default.aspx
posted: Aug 17, 2007
Just want to say the Lasagne, which had at one time a very savoury taste is so bland its not worth eating. My other issue is that on the packaging it states that the lasagne is topped with cheese - once opened you find there isnt enough cheese to please a mouse!!! I have definatly turned my back on these products.
posted: Aug 19, 2007
Have to agree! Our children have been brought up on LindaMcC and have only ever been vegetarian! These new alleged ‘improved’ must only have improved the suppliers of garlic, gravy and onions ! How about the soya content? I found about 3 pieces, hubby was about the same, daughter complained loudly ate the pastry and left the middle, and our son wouldn’t even touch the pie! All 4 of us used to love the old Deep country pies either hot or cold on a picnic! What an abuse of a brilliant brand and name! overcharged and extremely over-rated! They are disgusting! Don’t try contacting - that too is a waste of time! Answerphone, answerphone, answerphone and they don’t get back either!
Even our poor badgers weren’t that amused! The Badger family - they love everything - but not these horrible pies!!! They ate the dry bread first!
posted: Aug 20, 2007
Wow, i’m so glad other people have been let down by the new pies. Linda products vanished completely from my local ASDA about 6 months ago with no explanation (the staff didn’t even know why), and finally the pies are back and they’re just bizarre! I’ve got used to the overpowering mushroom taste now and can enjoy them, but the rest of my family (who are not yet vegan, but wanting to be!) can’t stomach them.
What’s happened to the Country Slices too? They were a huge hit in our house but i haven’t seen them for ages!
I will be emailing Hain Celestial Group right now to see what’s happening. Thanks for the link, Hazel!
posted: Aug 21, 2007
i think your guys best bet is to pop into a shop that still has stock left of the old range, as i did.
posted: Aug 21, 2007
Hello once again. I thought you all might like to know that I have received a reply from Hain-Celestial after my second email and am copying it here for you all to see.
Cheers.
Re: Linda McCartney Country Pies
Thank you for your emails received on 17 and 24 August 2007 regarding the above product.
We are extremely sorry that you have had cause to complain over the quality of this product, commenting that there was ‘practically no soya mince in them, just gravy’.
We take the greatest care to ensure that our products reach our customers in perfect condition, and tests are carried out by our staff at every stage during preparation and manufacture.
Regrettably without the quality code to provide us with the relevant manufacturing details, it is difficult to carry out a specific investigation. However, it is apparent from your comments that in this instance a possible filling fault may have occurred.
Your comments have been passed to the factory that manufactures these products, so that they may look into this incident to prevent it from re occurring.
As you would expect, we take our responsibilities to our customers very seriously indeed and we are sorry you have had this experience with our product and therefore enclose a postal order as a gesture of goodwill.
We hope your confidence in our products will be restored and that we will continue to receive your valued custom.
Yours sincerely
Rebecca Bridger
Consumer Contact Coordinator
Hain Frozen Foods UK Ltd
Enc. Postal order 24646326 - £3.00
posted: Aug 24, 2007
What happened to the country pies?? They used to be so tasty, and I cooked one tonight and almost retched! The taste is revolting and the soya pieces now are so like meat that I can’t stand to eat them and wondered if I’d perhaps cooked the wrong pie!
I have also complained, thanks to the link provided by Hazel there.
posted: Aug 25, 2007
I like the new country pie. Most of the range is available in my local Holland & Barrett in Birmingham - try your local store
posted: Aug 28, 2007
My daughter has been brought up on the sausage rolls and it’s just about the only protein she’ll eat - so we are extremely disappointed to say the least!
Come on guys you’re losing your faithful existing customers in an attempt to attract new ones - makes no business sense, especially when it’s a relatively limited market anyway.
posted: Sep 3, 2007
I bought six packs of the new ‘improved’ Country pies, and after trying one at the mother-in-laws house, took the whole lot back to the supermarket to get my money back. They are appalling - mushy filling with no texture, and a musty naff taste. I’ve been eating the LM range for years, and will continue with the sausages (when I am able to get hold of them!) but will be steering clear of the pies for the future. Bad marketing move by the new owners…..
posted: Sep 3, 2007
Hi There
Just an update to my previous posting. Since supplying them with the quality code they have sent the following mail in response:-
3 September 2007
Without Prejudice
Dear Ms Busuttil
Re: Linda McCartney Country Pies
I am writing with reference to our previous correspondence in regard to the above product (DEC 08 MFA 1737 13:35). I appreciate your patience in awaiting our response.
We at Hain Frozen Foods are extremely proud of our reputation for producing high quality foods and take such issues seriously so we are grateful that you have provided the above quality code, as we requested. This has enabled us to carry out a specific enquiry relating to your comments that the pies have ‘practically no soya mince in them, just gravy’.
This complaint was passed to our factory and following an investigation they can confirm that all our Quality Assurance procedures and Due-Diligence documentation were in order for the time that this pie was produced. We are therefore somewhat at a loss to explain what has occurred in this instance.
We appreciate your dissatisfaction with this matter and for that reason, offered a gesture of goodwill, by way of apology as you had cause to complain regarding one of our products.
It is our sincere hope that you will continue to purchase and enjoy Linda McCartney products in the future and please do not hesitate to contact us gain should you have any further enquiry or feedback.
Thank you again for contacting us.
Yours sincerely
Rebecca Bridger
Consumer Contact Coordinator
Hain Frozen Foods UK Ltd
posted: Sep 5, 2007
Please! Please! Please! RE-LAUNCH the ORIGINAL Country Pie, as the NEW product with it’s Onion Gravy (WAY TO MUCH ONION FLAVORING) Is not to my tase, and i can no longer enjoy my Sunday lunches.
posted: Sep 16, 2007
The linda McCartney range is Fantastic ,I hope it does not disappear of the shelves.great sausages.
posted: Sep 21, 2007
who else sells L Mc sausages, besides holland and barrett?
posted: Sep 24, 2007
who else sells L Mc Cartnney sausages, besides holland and barrett?
posted: Sep 24, 2007
who ate all the pies who ate all the pies it certainly wasnt me
posted: Sep 28, 2007
I could never find the Country Slice, sadly. Who sold that?
I tried the country pie, they aren’t too bad, the older ones were pretty damn good though. Sausage rolls have they gone? The new chilli non carne isn’t bad, yet to try the Cornish pasty and bean burger. I’m impressed they added ‘Vegan friendly’ on the website, I found it a struggle with th e last LMcC company to confirm certain things were Vegan in writing! Which I thought was odd!
posted: Oct 4, 2007
I’m an avid eater of Linda’s Deep Country Pies 2-3 times a week since the day it was born into the market, but with the present change of recipe, the taste is so revolting and it’s banned from entering my mouth again; I’m so heartbroken that I cannot rely on them anymore. My food sources is getting very limited here so please…PLEASE…bring back the original pies, and we’ll forgive you for trying new things so badly!!
posted: Oct 7, 2007
Hey,
Sausages ….. i found them in Tesco and Sainsburys. I have checked their website and it also says Morrisons, Waitrose and the Co-op sell them….
My freind wrote to them about the S/rolls and apparently they will be available in Morrisons by the end of Oct or beginning of Nov…. something about them not being up to the standards they would have liked which is why it’s taken them longer….. mmmm can’t wait…
posted: Oct 12, 2007
Where can I buy Linda McCartney chilli non carne from my children love them and I have tried everywhere for them
posted: Oct 16, 2007
Please could you give me a list of Stores in the Nottingham & Derby area which will stock LM sausage rolls. When are they being relaunched?
posted: Oct 18, 2007
You can buy Linda McCartney foods online at goodnessdirect.co.uk
posted: Oct 19, 2007
Thank god Im not the only one - I e mailed and phoned the evil Hain Corp - they promised a refund and feedback on my disgusted comments on the new pies (a pot noodle in pastry) - I received neither
posted: Oct 25, 2007
Ps to think that HAIN make the sublime ’sleepy time tea’ as well as the foul new pies as well - come on HAIN you cant and didnt improve on perfection - Linda would be spinning in her grave - why dont you admit you got it wrong ? or is soya cheaper than pea protein (the main ingredient of the old (sob) pie filling ? If you want to improve something why dont you try your sausages - they were and still are greasy muck even a pigeon wouldnt eat
posted: Oct 25, 2007
Can we please have the veggie sausage rolls back. There is nothing else out there like them. They may not be popular in America, but they certainly are here.
posted: Nov 1, 2007
i am rapidly running out of my small stock of LM chilli non carnis. I have tried all my local supermarkets - waitrose, tesco and sainsburys, in more than one branch of the last two, but to no avail. Also non in my two local branches of Holland and Barrett. PLEASE, where can i but these in south birmingham??? I find 2 or 3 other LM items, non of which i want.
posted: Nov 1, 2007
Please can you tell me if the new sausages are now free from TFA? thank you.
posted: Nov 6, 2007
Hi , i hate it when my favorite products are relaunched. I used to love the linda McCartney Lasagne , and was really pleased when i spotted them in a new box at my local sainsbury, it has been months since i had been able to find them in tesco, so i grabbed a few for the freezer. I have just had one for my dinner and it was horrible. Loads of tastless white sauce, a little bit of soya mince with no flavour at all.Slop. Why change things , it s really disappointing as they were great to heat up if time was short. Please Hain go back to the old recipe, worse ,i have brought a box of the pies which i also loved and judging by the reviews i think i should put them straight in the bin!!
posted: Nov 12, 2007
Re last comment - Please do try the pies (it may not be pleasant) and feedback to us what you think - Im betting you will be binning them !
posted: Nov 16, 2007
PS I read that Linda has sold more meals than Paul has records - so the new Hain range is like his back catalogue cut down to ‘Wings’ or his new stuff
posted: Nov 16, 2007
From the moment I first had a LM pie, I was hooked. I didn’t even care that I couldn’t cook the pastry base properly, they were so delicious, really hearty, well filled, and deep. To call the new ones ‘deep’ has got to be against the trade descriptions act. They are not as deep as the old ones, I have measured them.
Perhaps a better name would be shallow manky excuse for pies. There is less mince in there and it is soya mince which doesn’t taste as nice as the old pea protein. Are they trying to get rid of all that GM Soya in the US? who taste tested the new pies? Were they trialled on Americans who never had the pleasure of the old pies? There is no comparison. Boycott the pies!!!!!!!!!!!! (won’t be hard, they’re disgusting. In fact THERE IS NOT ADJECTIVE TO ADEQUATELY DESCRIBE HOW VILE THEY ARE).
posted: Nov 16, 2007
what are the latest developments for linda mccartney sausage rolls and the chilli con carne - cant go on much longer without them - is there anywhere in the country i can buy them - help….!!!!!!
posted: Nov 19, 2007
well i had the pies in the freezer for 3 weeks and i thought id build up to trying one out for myself.
The new pies are Smaller than the original , which in this case was good as it was less to throw away. 0 out of 10 for taste and texture. Cant tell you how dissapointed i am, the filling is minimal, more “gravy” than anything else and the taste is really artifical, made me feel unhealthy eating it.
If you were a fan of the old pies, dont be tempted to buy the new ones, i promise you, you will end up throwing them away.
posted: Nov 27, 2007
I see most of the comments relate to the deep fill pies, and from what has been written, they are a dead loss. We live in Cumbria and we are now finding tht we cannot get ANY Linda MaCartney produces. One of our staples has been the sausages, but none of the three supermarkets, Tesco, Asda, Morrisons or Holland & Barrett I looked in Asda today and they had the pies and something else, but not sausages, (just the two products), what is going on. It is hard enough being vegetarian in the UK without the manufactures making it even harder. Bring back FINDUS, the original owners of the brand.
posted: Nov 27, 2007
Desperately seeking Linda M sausage rolls. Tried Quorn, no where near as good. must have some before Christmas. Bring them back.
posted: Dec 1, 2007
As above , I have failed to locate L M’s sausage rolls, an important part of Christmas ( and the rest of the year’s feasting) what’s going on? Stop messing with my world!
posted: Dec 3, 2007
I SAW THE SAUSAGE ROLLS IN OUR LOCAL HOLLAND & BARRETT SHOP LAST WEEK. SO TRY YOUR LOCAL ONE, GOOD LUCK!
posted: Dec 6, 2007
I read with interest all the comments.I love the L M lasagnes but cant find them any where and i travel all over Scotland.It seems that the owners are not listening to customers
posted: Dec 19, 2007
where can one get LMC sausages in Ireland.. need them for christmas dinner!!!!
posted: Dec 20, 2007
lmc products seem to have just dissappeared off shelfs in ireland!! why is this and will they be returning at any time?? i have been a fan of lmc produce all my life as a vegetarian, there are similar foods available but not such things as the country pies and the sausages just dont match up to lmc’s. Please, please let this be available over here again!!!
posted: Dec 20, 2007
They’re not available in Ireland yet, my freind was just over there for Christmas and couldn’t get ahold of anything. She enquired about it and was told that they are trying to get the products over there soon.
posted: Jan 9, 2008
I just bought the new sausages from tescos today, they’re 80p reduced from 1.70 until the end of the month. I must say, they are very delicious! They taste very much like the old ones, but are thicker and juicier (there’s now 6 instead of 8). I personally disliked the hard breadcrumb coating on the old ones, so this is great. They must be using the same ingredients still for these, as it does taste exactly like the old ones.
posted: Jan 14, 2008
Brilliant news that sausages are available again in the UK. When will they be in Ireland? Has anybody seen them yet??
posted: Jan 23, 2008
Thought I’d add my voice to those sorely dissappointed at the latest iteration of the LM country pies. Foul. I seem to recall that the last time the LM pies were ‘improved’ upon a year or two ago (and after similar outcry), they were soon relaunched again with the words ‘original recipe’ displayed prominently on the packaging. Why mess with what works?
Jason Reynolds
posted: Jan 24, 2008
my boyfriend and i just ate the new pies for dinner, and neither of us honestly find them too bad in terms of taste. The lack of filling is a problem though: it’s mainly pastry with a slick of gravy-like substance and some chopped up onion bits. They also burst in the oven, haemorrhaging a substantial part of what little filling they contained. At the weekend i’m going to try making something similar from scratch - if it goes well and leads to a greater audience than my boyfriend, i promise never to sell out to Hain Celestial…!
posted: Jan 24, 2008
Little Jo, just to let you know - they’re not calling the new pies ‘Deep Copuntry Pies’ ….. They’re just ‘Country Pies’.
posted: Jan 25, 2008
I have tried quite a few different things from the range but I have to say the sausages were so revolting that I couldn’t eat them. Why have they changed so much from the last ones?
posted: Feb 21, 2008
i have been a vegetarian for 16 yrs and have loved the linda mccartney range, but has there been a recipe change with the deep country pies they don’t taste like they used to and i’m not keen on these now please change them back to the way they were.
posted: Mar 1, 2008
Anyone know the ingredients of Linday McCartney sundried tomato sausages, I’d like to make my own ones.
AHA
posted: Mar 18, 2008
I would like to join the campaign to change back to the original recipe in the deep-filled country pies. I had stopped buying them because the new recipe was so awful, but my partner bought me a box by mistake. I decided to give them another go tonight, and it actually made me feel sick.
posted: Mar 20, 2008
the hain uk site is’nt blank, you have to click contact on the left, i must admit, i too was initially puzzled, but it is there.
complain about the nasty pies taste change now ! at :
http://www.hain-celestial.co.uk/ContactUs.aspx
posted: Apr 27, 2008
BRING BACK THE SUBLIME SOUTHERN GRILL: there are MANY ‘chicken style’ grills around these days but does the Linda McCartney range of producers not realise that theirs was unbeatable; unique; different????????…………nothing Quorn, tesco or the others produced was any where near the quality of Linda McCartney’s version of this product………anyone out there agree that it was a unique product and SADLY missed??
posted: May 17, 2008
BRING BACK THE SOUTHERN GRILL: quorn cant match it; tesco cant match it, it was unique, popular and there was nothing like it around………the copycat versions since it was dropped just dont cut the mustard……BRING IT BACK PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted: May 17, 2008
1. Can anyone post here the ingredients of the Sausages, Country Pies, or any other Linda McCartney product ?
2. Has anyone had the good fortune of trying the Turtle Island Foods “Tofurky” range in America, http://www.tofurky.com ? I have tried many different Vegan deli slices and these were the clear winner. They not only went after taste, they also reproduced texture, and have many varieties. Exceptional.
I have only been able to find their Tempeh in Ireland/UK., and having tried another Tempeh, it is ironically quite a different experience (Vegan Haggis perhaps ?).
I sent an email to Turtle Island Foods suggesting opening a companion European manufacturing facility. Polite email campaign?
Currently Dunnes Stores and Tesco/IE store mostly egg containing Quorn and precious little else.
Other American Vegan treats include Veat (great chicken/veal/pork substitute that makes an excellent Pork Chausseur) and Nates Zesty Italian Meat Balls.
Best Began Sitcom line:
“Next Thanksgiving you can all go Tofurky yourselves!”, a “Just Shoot Me” disgruntled host cries at the end of a “The Norman Conquests” type episode.
posted: Jul 8, 2008